19 replies to this topic

[Rodc]

I have been an avid reader of this site for a long time but this is the first time I have posted. Having got to know the Caveman it is obvious that he is a passionate Footscray man who loves his club. I can understand his frustration at a couple of things, not least being the awful name change. I hope for his sake and people like him that common sense will eventually prevail and the famous old Footscray name will return.
The other frustration I share with him is the lack of old VFL footage of clubs like Footscray. I think I am right in saying that Footscray is now the only one of the Melbourne clubs that doesn't have a history tape. The recent release of the North Melbourne Tape leaves Footscray on it's own. (Except if you include South Melbourne or Fitzroy who no longer exist in their own right). There must be stuff out there lying dormant or filed in TV station libraries. I realise that clubs like Footscray did not get a great run during the 60's and 70's when there were only two matches replayed, but there must be more footage than Teddy's 3/4 time speech in his last game. What has happended to the 1974 and '76 Elimination Finals. Surely there must be some footage somewhere that we haven't seen a thousand times before. I'm sure I can remember as a young fellow seeing Footscray on the replay from time to time. For example, Ted's 300th game against Fitzroy and Princes Park was obviously replayed, so what happened to it? I personally haven't tried the TV Stations. Has anyone out there done that and if so what type of response did you get?
Love the website. It would be great if we came up with something.

[Caveman]

Very well said rodc, agree on all points.

I have never seen one highlight (well really the whole game was a lowlight) of that bleeding 1974 Elimination Final. Nothing at all.

Three weeks later was the Grand Final between Richmond and North Melbourne. On the Sensational Seventies video/dvd the few highlights of that game are in black and white as was the case in those pre colour televison era which arrived in Australia in 1975.

Very appropriate that you mention how "Western" doesn't have a history dvd, because a few years ago I bought the Richmond history video (Fighting Fury) and the part from it where they show that 1974 Grand Final was in colour! Marvellous and also if you buy that full dvd of that 1974 Grand Final- you will find that it is in colour.

I remember that 1976 Elimination Final. I am still recovering from it- a seven year old child back then in September 1976 just couldn't fathom how a 13 point lead at three quarter time going home with the breeze in that last quarter can result in a 7 point defeat. I think that game haunts me more that the 1994 heartbreak (if that is at all possible.)

Would a 'Western' history be worthwhile? I have always tended to think not- for the reasons that nothing rare would be in it- just the usual material including all the heartbreaking finals losses magnified and commented on. The St Kilda history dvd (Heaven and Hell) ignored all of 1971, they didn't show any action from that year until the Grand Final- I couldn't believe that, yet they included Lockett throwing a crutch at a then journalist, now rival club President?! Work that out?

Hopefully soon those two games from 1979- Footscray v Essendon and Essendon v Footscray will soon be back on the Footscray Games chapter as well as all the others.

Anyway we can only keep hunting around.

[Rodc]

Very well said rodc, agree on all points.

I have never seen one highlight (well really the whole game was a lowlight) of that bleeding 1974 Elimination Final. Nothing at all.

Three weeks later was the Grand Final between Richmond and North Melbourne. On the Sensational Seventies video/dvd the few highlights of that game are in black and white as was the case in those pre colour televison era which arrived in Australia in 1975.

Very appropriate that you mention how "Western" doesn't have a history dvd, because a few years ago I bought the Richmond history video (Fighting Fury) and the part from it where they show that 1974 Grand Final was in colour! Marvellous and also if you buy that full dvd of that 1974 Grand Final- you will find that it is in colour.

I remember that 1976 Elimination Final. I am still recovering from it- a seven year old child back then in September 1976 just couldn't fathom how a 13 point lead at three quarter time going home with the breeze in that last quarter can result in a 7 point defeat. I think that game haunts me more that the 1994 heartbreak (if that is at all possible.)

Would a 'Western' history be worthwhile? I have always tended to think not- for the reasons that nothing rare would be in it- just the usual material including all the heartbreaking finals losses magnified and commented on. The St Kilda history dvd (Heaven and Hell) ignored all of 1971, they didn't show any action from that year until the Grand Final- I couldn't believe that, yet they included Lockett throwing a crutch at a then journalist, now rival club President?! Work that out?

Hopefully soon those two games from 1979- Footscray v Essendon and Essendon v Footscray will soon be back on the Footscray Games chapter as well as all the others.

Anyway we can only keep hunting around.

[Rodc]

I can feel your frustration, Caveman. I see your point about how heartbreaking the '76 Elimination Final was but I still think it is great to see the players of that era, regardless of the result. I'm not really fussed whether footage is of a winning game or not. And talking of Teddy, the shame of course is that for a man who held the title, "Mr. Football", how little footage of him there is of actually playing the game. Younger people would be forgiven for thinking he was a TV personality rather than one of the greatest players of all time. I had heard that someone did have some old reels of him somewhere, don't know whether it was found in a garage or something. (Might have even been his garage!!). Anyone else heard of that? The other point about the History tape is I guess that if they did decide to do one it might flush out a bit of footage that we haven't seen before, however small it may be.

[Caveman]

Thanks Rodc, though I need to clarify this.

The 1976 Elimination Final was a very painful memory back from what will be in 9 months time 35 years ago. However I would be very excited and happy to see it again on video/dvd, no question about that. Same with whatever there is of that 1974 Elimination Final. I would put them up in the Footscray Games part of this website- the first quarter only though for 1974!

There is a small highlights package which was put on FOX Footy a few years ago taken from the ABC coverage of that 1976 Elimination Final. I do recall that Mike Willamson and Lew Richards commentated for Channel 7 on that game, so this was the last Footscray game that Mike Willamson ever called on television. When a few gremlins are sorted out this site will progress a bit further in the action field (amongst others) and at least one more player will be added to the Footscray Players Kicking Goals chapter from that game. Very appropriate because that final was the last game that this bloke played for Footscray.

Many more players will be added to the Footscray Players Kicking Goals site- we should really have over 100 players done easily- we could comfortably push it to 125.

History tape- well if they can get rare action - that will be magnificent. If it is the same stuff that we have all seen before- then it will be just another run of the mill tape.

[Rodc]

Thanks Rodc, though I need to clarify this.

The 1976 Elimination Final was a very painful memory back from what will be in 9 months time 35 years ago. However I would be very excited and happy to see it again on video/dvd, no question about that. Same with whatever there is of that 1974 Elimination Final. I would put them up in the Footscray Games part of this website- the first quarter only though for 1974!

There is a small highlights package which was put on FOX Footy a few years ago taken from the ABC coverage of that 1976 Elimination Final. I do recall that Mike Willamson and Lew Richards commentated for Channel 7 on that game, so this was the last Footscray game that Mike Willamson ever called on television. When a few gremlins are sorted out this site will progress a bit further in the action field (amongst others) and at least one more player will be added to the Footscray Players Kicking Goals chapter from that game. Very appropriate because that final was the last game that this bloke played for Footscray.

Many more players will be added to the Footscray Players Kicking Goals site- we should really have over 100 players done easily- we could comfortably push it to 125.

History tape- well if they can get rare action - that will be magnificent. If it is the same stuff that we have all seen before- then it will be just another run of the mill tape.

[Rodc]

Not sure how many people saw the documentary on One HD on Sunday night - "Operation Premiership" - the story of how North Melbourne used the 10 year rule and lured Ron Barassi out of retirement. It was a terrific documentary but what struck me was the archival footage that was in it. It included old interviews, scenes inside the dressing rooms at Arden Street, crowd shots of the day and Geoff Leek and Wes Lofts commentating a North Melbourne game from the stand at Arden Street. It once again proved that there is footage out there. And it further added to the frustration about the lack of Footscray footage. That prompted me to ring Australian Football Video. I asked the chap I spoke to whether there was anything on the drawing board given that Footscray is the only one of the Melbourne clubs that hasn't had a History Tape done on them. I was told that unless there is substantial interest from the club itself it is unlikely to happen. Apparently they rely on the clubs making a commitment to sell a certain number at their end to offset some production costs to make it worthwhile. Anyone got an "in" at the club that might kick off some interest?

[Caveman]

One bloke I know at the club would definitely be supportive of pushing for this.

Problem is would the club be interested?

3 years ago the answer would be no- as it appeared that the Western Bulldogs couldn't give the proverbial about any history prior to 1997, however in the last couple of years Campbell Rose proved that he was all for the museum and now it is taking place. So there may be some others there who could 'push it along' since the museum stage is in motion.



I do support a History of Footscray dvd being produced, however I have never been passionate about pushing for it, because I have this horrible cynical view that such a dvd wouldn't be much chop.

What I mean here (and I certainly hope that I would be proved wrong) is that it would probably be filled in with material that we have all seen before. Or it would just generally contain stuff like-



(1) The action of Teddy Whitten senior would be of him playing ......................... for Victoria! Then the talk about him would be how great he was in state games.!

(2) They would interview Kelvin Templeton and the conversation would run along the lines of- 'How good was Royce Hart at training'.

(3) If Robert Groenewegen were to be interviewed or spoken about it by others, it would just contain references to off field stuff- his match winning 3 goals in the last quarter against Hawthorn in 1983 would be ignored in preference to making mention of flights to Hawaii and shenanigans at team photographs. In other words the trivial would rise to the top- they wouldn't talk about him winning us a game

(4) Ditto for Doug Hawkins- they would hardly show any of his brilliant play- it would all be about discussing end of season trips away.

(5) The goal after the siren in the 1994 final on the Saturday night

(6) Jarman and all that in 1997- with Rohan Smith punching the ground just to stick it up us even more

(7) The 1978 record score game would be glossed over, probably 15 seconds on it- the 1977 game at Windy Hill in which Footscray beat Essendon by 100 points having scored 29.15.189 would NOT be mentioned, even though Channel 2 covered the game. The 1985 club record winning margin game over Melbourne would NOT be mentioned.


So in a nutshell my prediction is that a History of Footscray dvd would probably be called 'The History of the Doggies' and just be full of 'been there SEEN that stuff combined with your usual ' stereotypes of the poor downtrodden 'doggies' fan who endures SEE ABOVE # 5 & # 6 and the needless grovelling to and name dropping of certain people from the media/at other clubs.


I hope this cynicism is misplaced, so if someone reads this that would make such a dvd, then they would take this lament on board and not do a dvd in such a way.

[Rodc]

Just had a look at the Footscray Hall of Fame DVD. There is a snippet of Jack Collins playing against Melbourne at the MCG. Its is not the 1954 Grand Final and looks like a TV braoadcast game. It has commentary so I'm guessing that it is about 1957. If I am correct I believe Channel Seven broadcast live the last quarter of Home and Away games in that year before they realised that it might have been affecting attendances. Only goes for a minute or so but it is great footage. So where is the rest of the quarter?

[Caveman]

It was 1957 that the last quarter was telecast live. It was late in the year of 1956 that Australia finally got television, so it would be unlikely that it was before 1956.

That footage on that Hall of Fame dvd with Jack Collins kicking that goal to the Ponsford Stand End would probably have been from 1957. Funny for young people that the right hand end on tv at the MCG wasn't called the Ponsford Stand End back in in 1957 as it hadn't been built yet! When it was constructed (in 1967) it was known as the Western Stand until the late 1980's)

Jack Collins last season at Footscray was in 1958 and there was no Melbourne v Footscray fixture in that year, there was just the one meeting- Footscray v Melbourne and it was actually the last game of the season before the finals which we did not make, though Melbourne certainly did. The Demons won that game at the Western Oval which so happened to be Jack Collins final match as a league footballer. He soon moved into club officialdom at Footscray.

By the way doesn't the Ponsford Stand have a better ring to it than the Western Stand?

[Rodc]

It was 1957 that the last quarter was telecast live. It was late in the year of 1956 that Australia finally got television, so it would be unlikely that it was before 1956.

That footage on that Hall of Fame dvd with Jack Collins kicking that goal to the Ponsford Stand End would probably have been from 1957. Funny for young people that the right hand end on tv at the MCG wasn't called the Ponsford Stand End back in in 1957 as it hadn't been built yet! When it was constructed (in 1967) it was known as the Western Stand until the late 1980's)

Jack Collins last season at Footscray was in 1958 and there was no Melbourne v Footscray fixture in that year, there was just the one meeting- Footscray v Melbourne and it was actually the last game of the season before the finals which we did not make, though Melbourne certainly did. The Demons won that game at the Western Oval which so happened to be Jack Collins final match as a league footballer. He soon moved into club officialdom at Footscray.

By the way doesn't the Ponsford Stand have a better ring to it than the Western Stand?

[Rodc]

That certainly brings back memories, Caveman. The first game I saw at the MCG was in 1967 when I was about 9. It was a Richmond vs St.Kilda game, (dad was a St'Kilda supporter). The Western Stand was just being built and the area behind the goals at the city end was virtually a construction site. It was a wet muddy day and there was a bloke positioned behind those goals to throw the ball back. I remember they had a makeshift scoreboard at the Punt Road end about where the old timeclock used to be at that end. It certainly makes you feel old when you can remember the construction of a stand, then it's demolition and then a new one built. In fact, the whole stadium has been rebuilt.
Sadly, being from the country the Western Oval was one of the few grounds I didn't get to see a game at. My favourite memory is attending a clinic there in 1975. It was run by Laurie Sandilands, Terry Wheeler, Geoff Jennings and Neil Sasche. It turned out to be the Thursday before Neil Sacshe had his accident on the Saturday. I remember him being a nice bloke that day. A couple of years ago there was an article about him in the paper and it had an email address so I took the chance to email to him and wish him luck and mentioned that clinic to him. I got a fantastic reply from him in which he said he didn't actually remember that day. Who could blame him!! Then only recently saw the interview with him on the Bulldogs Hall of Fame DVD. What a gentleman he seems to be and so good to see what he is doing with his life. Who knows where his footy career would have gone?

[Lisbon]

Here's a bit of good Footscray film. There's a factual error, though, the "Western" Bulldogs didn't star in the 1954 Grand Final, the Footscray Football Club did.

The Men of 1954

[Rodc]

Here's a bit of good Footscray film. There's a factual error, though, the "Western" Bulldogs didn't star in the 1954 Grand Final, the Footscray Football Club did.

The Men of 1954

[Rodc]

That was fantastic, Lisbon. Does anyone know how many of the '54 side are still with us? Thanks again for showing that.

[Caveman]

Footscray's 1954 Grand Final winning team

Backline: Wally Donald, Herb Henderson, Dave Bryden
Half Back Line: Alan Martin, Ted Whitten, Jim Gallagher
Centreline: Ron McCarthy, Don Ross, Doug Reynolds
Half Forward Line: Roger Duffy, Peter Box, Ron Stockman
Forward Line: Charlie Sutton, Jack Collins, Brian Gilmore
Followers: Harvey Stevens, Arthur Edwards
Rover: John Kerr
Reserves: Angus Abbey, Jack Nuttall,

Captain/ Coach: Charlie Sutton

Still with us are

Herb Henderson, Dave Bryden, Jim Gallagher, Don Ross, Doug Reynolds, Peter Box, Ron Stockman, Charlie Sutton, Harvey Stevens and Angus Abbey.

Lionel Ryan who was omitted from the team having played in the Second Semi Final to make way for the returning from injury Charlie Sutton, is also still alive

[Rodc]

With the sad passing of Bobby Davis there has been a lot of tributes on the various TV stations and panel shows. Not sure if anyone noticed some old colour film, (possibly home made), of Bob running on to the ground at various grounds and tossing the coin. Didn't quite catch who the Footscray captain he was tossing with, but given that it was probably mid to late fifties was wondering if anyone would know who it would have been, (providing of course that it wasn't just a stand in for the day). From what I saw it was beautiful old coloured footage and typical of Bob he had a smile on his face and a pat on the back for his opponent at the toss.

[Caveman]

I have seen that little bit of footage (in the last few days) of Bob Davis in his number 4 and his counterpart- the Footscray captain wearing number 32 in the marvellous old guernsey was Harvey Stevens.

It would have been 1957- Round 1 at Kardinia Park.

This 1957 match was the only Geelong v Footscray clash at Kardinia Park that Teddy Whitten ever took part in as a player or coach in which the bulldogs didn't lose. Because in that game we DREW! Teddy never won at Kardinia Park. So between 1951 -1971 that draw was the only time in the meetings between the teams that took place at Kardinia Park that Geelong didn't win. The final score was Geelong 11.11.77 - Footscray 10.17.77.

The crowd was over 34,000. When looking at the statistics from websites such as AFL Tables- Geelong v Footscray and Footscray v Geelong games in that mid to last 1950's era regularly had crowds in excess of 30,000. Not to forget the 42,000 for Footscray v Geelong in 1961.

Back with Harvey Stevens#32- he is a 54er that happily is still with us. Harvey was with Collingwood before Footscray and took part in their 1952 runners up Grand Final appearance to Geelong that Bob Davis played in. He moved to Footscray in 1953, playing in Footscray's first ever Preliminary Final. Naturally for us it was the beginning of our long list of Preliminary Final defeats- and to Geelong as well. Then there was the flag in 1954 for Harvey Stevens.

That game from 1957 was the first between the two teams since the 1956 First Semi Final. Footscray beat Geelong that day as we did in the 1954 Second Semi Final. If you walked out of the MCG after that 1956 Geelong v Footscray First Semi Final, you could possibly of thought that Footscray had Geelongs measure in finals games having won two in a row. They were our bunnies. Well how the tide has turned since that day, because we haven't beaten Geelong in a final since September 1956. Seven defeats in a row although we were leading when the final siren sounded in one of those finals (1994 as those above 25 would recall) with Footscray ahead, but that wasn't to be the last score of that Saturday night final.

In that 1957 game one famous Geelong player kicked 7 of the 11 Geelong goals. It was Fred Wooller who was Geelong's Premiership captain in 1963 just as we all know that Bob Davis was the coach.

Bobby Davis left us following a Geelong victory last round that sent them to the top of the table. The first post Bob Davis game has ended not that long ago also in a Geelong victory. He departed with Geelong at the top- how he would have liked it.

I will do a write up on the great Bob Davis in the General AFL area soon- hopefully tomorrow at the very latest.

[Rodc]

Just bought the book and DVD from the Hawthorn shop about the 50th year anniversary of Hawthorn's first premiership win against Footscray in 1961. Has about 40 seconds of footage at the start of the DVD and then various highlights of the game throughout interspersed with interviews of some of the Hawthorn players. Unfortunately Caveman, not a Footscray DVD as such but at least it is something that involves Footscray and something that is a part of Footscray's history. Also a lot of photos and reminiscing in the book. Some good photos of Footscray, several in colour and the back cover has a great black and white photo of the crowd and the old scoreboard with the final score on it. I think there is a bit there for Footscray fans.

[Caveman]

Will definitely get that DVD rodc- thanks mate for bringing this to our attention. I actually didn't know that this existed.

Has there ever been a bigger watershed in football history, to top the image of the half time scoreboard at that 1961 Grand Final? One club (the one trailing at that point) going on to win that one and 9 more(may be 10 in a few weeks).

The team in front walking off with supporters still waiting to return to the MCG for the final game of the season - all of 50 years later.